Posts by Cold Steel

268

After 2000 years since JC was executed ,why have we heard not a whisper from GOD ALMIGHTY ?

by smiddy in

he/she had no problem talking to adam and eve ,though they were sinners in his/her sight .throughout the hebrew sriptures, ot, he /she had no problem communicating with fallen man ,imperfect humans , to dictate his will to his subjects by means of prophets , male and female ,according to the bible , the old testament ,the hebrew scriptures , god communicated not once ,not twice ,not even thrice ,but dozens of times during the first 4000 years of human history according to the bible.. why has this god been so silent these past 2000 years ,when their have been atrocities above the scale of anything that has ever been seen these past 6000 years of human existence .. oh you may say that the atrocities were not committed by god they were committed by man.

fair enough .but god intervened in human affairs in such smaller infringements.

with prophets or so the bible says.. the so called apostacy after the last of the apostles , the influence of satan in the world ,( or was that after 1914 ,) and the 2000 year gap when christ was supposed to return ,never mind about all the crap that went before it .. the fact remains we have never heard from god ,any god, or even" a " god, with either his/her approval or disapproval of events good or bad these past 2000 years... smiddy.

Cold Steel

Mr. Freeze: Maybe people lack faith in god because they have never heard him. If he really wanted people to worship him, he should make himself evident. Why wouldn't he? I mean when it is something that is as important as your everlasting wellbeing that is being decided by your belief in god, I think he's kind of a dick for hiding.

What if he isn’t hiding? What if he has a church on Earth and is speaking to man through that church as he did anciently?

It would be so simple for himself to reveal himself to the whole world.

In what way would you like to see him revealed? If you knew that God had a church and was speaking to man, would you rush out and join it? If he spoke from Heaven and revealed that church, would you join it?

I don’t know what you’d do, but many people wouldn’t. And there are primarily two reasons he doesn’t do that. First, he has placed man on Earth to live by faith, not by sight. We are going through a period of being tried and tested, which brings us to the second reason. If God revealed himself in some miraculous way to the entire earth, man would then be obligated to abide in his commandment, and those who wouldn’t would find themselves under a condemnation they could not bear. Being merciful, and not wishing to abrogate our free agency, he has determined to provide the light, but to lead people to it.

Jesus said, “I stand at the door and knock....” It’s up to them to open the door. Those who don’t will still affect their situation in the world to come, but they won’t be nearly under the condemnation they would if Jesus revealed himself to them as he did Saul (Paul) and they rejected him. In other words, if Paul had not heeded his vision on the way to Damascus, he would have been under much greater condemnation than if he’d continued his life in ignorance. We’re judged on what we know and how we react to it. “To those whom much is given, much is expected.”

Cold Steel, those "prophets" vary so greatly in their teachings how could you say their revelations are coming from one source? That doesn't make any sense. Maybe god should speak up so everyone is on the same page.

I never said they come from the same source. The OP asked why God hadn’t spoken in 2,000 years, then added the question as to why no one had even claimed he had spoken. I merely pointed out that there are claimants. My personal conviction is that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the one which has been established of God and has his apostolic authority restored through the laying on of hands. We call it the Restoration of the Gospel because we believe that the church had reached a condition in which it could not be reformed. The authority and the spiritual gifts were gone and could only return by an active act of God.

According to a number of respected scholars are convinced that the so-called Gospel of Thomas, which is part of the Nag Hammadi Library found in Egypt in 1947, contains many of the true sayings of Jesus. One of these is the well known parable of the woman and the jar. My favorite translation is:

Jesus says: The Kingdom of the Father is like a woman who takes a vessel of flour and sets out on a long road. The handle of the vessel broke: the flour spilled out on the road behind her without her knowing it and stopping it. When she arrived at the house she put the vessel down and found it was empty. (Doresse, 97 (101))

In many of the early literature, the church was depicted as a woman. In this case, the woman carries the broken jar, which is seen as the loss of the church’s spiritual gifts. It happened so slowly that she didn’t notice. Eventually she returned home and the meal (flour) was gone. The empty form was left, but not the substance. It could not be re-gathered from the road, but required the woman to gain new flour. Thus the parable is about the apostasy from the gospel and the need for new truth.

10

Going To Other Churches

by Cold Steel in

okay, what happens when a congregation member, a relatively new convert, approaches an elder and says, "hey, jim.

just wanted to let you know that i'm going to have to leave today's meeting as soon as it breaks....".

"really," says jim.

Cold Steel

Lois: Cold Steel, I am curious what you will tell us, is the next part. LOL Because I cannot comprehend any JDub saying those words in any kind of a sentence.

No, it was completely hypothetical. I just wondered how deep those waters were when the Society forbade visits to other churches. I mean, didn’t they say they should know about other churches? Even the apostles preached and attended the synagogues.

Also, keep in mind that I’ve never been to a Kingdom Hall, so I really don’t know how the elders would handle someone who wanted to research other religions.

Remember, the Jehovah's Witnesses don’t have, or claim to have, the keys of the kingdom which bind in Heaven and Earth, which means that there is no way they can cut someone off (disfellowship) someone on Earth and that it will be in effect in Heaven. Disfellowshiped people should have no fear or trepidation regarding their status because ultimately a kind and loving God isn’t going to destroy someone just because some elders disfellowship someone. After all, have you ever wondered why they call it disfellowshiping instead of excommunication? The latter is defined as “A formal ecclesiastical censure that deprives a person of the right to belong to a church.” Well, elders can’t excommunicate because they don’t claim to represent a church, nor do they have the ecclesiastical authority to revoke a person’s baptism, which is what excommunication is.

So if what they do is not excommunication, what is disfellowshiping? To understand that, Jehovah's Witnesses need to understand what fellowshipping is.

fel·low·ship (fµl“½-sh¹p”) n. 1.a. The condition of sharing similar interests, ideals, or experiences, as by reason of profession, religion, or nationality. b. The companionship of individuals in a congenial atmosphere and on equal terms. 2. A close association of friends or equals sharing similar interests. 3. Friendship; comradeship. 4.a. The financial grant made to a fellow in a college or university. b. The status of having been awarded such a grant. c. A foundation established for the awarding of such a grant.

That’s where the elders and the Governing Body of the Jehovah's Witnesses have their members snowed. Disfellowshiping isn’t revoking someone’s baptism nor does it mean that Yahweh will recognize the action in any way. It’s simply a means of control. Like smoke, it has no actual substance. So if a person is disfellowshiped for any reason, it’s 1) between them and God, and 2) between them and the Organization. The Society has no authority to revoke someone’s baptism because they do not possess the keys of authority necessary to do so. And if someone tells you they have this apostolic authority, ask them where they got it.

After all, when you’re disfellowshiped, who is it who signs the papers and actually commits the act? If it’s not the Governing Body of the Jehovah's Witnesses, who also don’t have the keys, who is it? Chances are it’s a local action.

Jesus said to the apostle Peter ( Matthew 16:19):

And I will give unto thee the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in Heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in Heaven.

Apparently Peter, at the time, did not possess these keys of authority. So how did Jesus confer them? The scriptures don’t say, but it was most likely through hands-on-head ordination. Since they were given to the top leaders of the church, one surmises that if one isn’t an ordained leader of a church (as the WTBTS admits they’re not), then they don’t have the requisite keys.

The bottom line here is that Jehovah's Witnesses need not fear being disfellowshiped and are free to follow the dictates of their hearts, including having friends who aren’t members, attending other churches, reading their literature, questioning their doctrine, visiting this website, celebrating birthdays (which isn’t condemned anywhere in scripture), pursuing higher education, accept blood transfusions and whatever else you want to do that isn’t outright sin.

So far, I’m appalled at the things you guys can get disfellowshiped for. It’s just incredible.

268

After 2000 years since JC was executed ,why have we heard not a whisper from GOD ALMIGHTY ?

by smiddy in

he/she had no problem talking to adam and eve ,though they were sinners in his/her sight .throughout the hebrew sriptures, ot, he /she had no problem communicating with fallen man ,imperfect humans , to dictate his will to his subjects by means of prophets , male and female ,according to the bible , the old testament ,the hebrew scriptures , god communicated not once ,not twice ,not even thrice ,but dozens of times during the first 4000 years of human history according to the bible.. why has this god been so silent these past 2000 years ,when their have been atrocities above the scale of anything that has ever been seen these past 6000 years of human existence .. oh you may say that the atrocities were not committed by god they were committed by man.

fair enough .but god intervened in human affairs in such smaller infringements.

with prophets or so the bible says.. the so called apostacy after the last of the apostles , the influence of satan in the world ,( or was that after 1914 ,) and the 2000 year gap when christ was supposed to return ,never mind about all the crap that went before it .. the fact remains we have never heard from god ,any god, or even" a " god, with either his/her approval or disapproval of events good or bad these past 2000 years... smiddy.

Cold Steel

Smiddy: Why has this GOD been so silent these past 2000 years, when there have been atrocities above the scale of anything that has ever been seen these past 6000 years of human existence.

... The fact remains we have never heard from GOD, any GOD, or even “a” GOD, with either his/her approval or disapproval of events good or bad these past 2000 years.

What about Muhammad, circa 600 A.D.? What about the so-called “letters from God” that were said to float down from heaven from time to time in the Roman and Orthodox churches? And more significantly (to me), what about Joseph Smith and the Restoration declared by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints beginning in 1830? (It claims to hold the keys of the kingdom of God, through the instrumentality of holy beings who have systematically restored it, prophecy and all of the ancient spiritual gifts; it has a quorum of twelve apostles, quorum of seventy and believes in the restoration of revelation via angelic ministration and the Spirit of God.) Following the Latter-day Saints, Ellen G. White, several decades later, instituted the Adventist movement based on her personal revelations. Many of her doctrines found their way into the beliefs of the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Although the Governing Body of the Jehovah's Witnesses claims not to have revelation—the kind enjoyed by the ancient church—it does claim both “light” and “new light.” But the way I see it, anytime God communicates with man, either through the Spirit of God or inspired impressions or through visions, prophecy and angelic ministrations—it’s all revelation. The Governing Body can’t have it both ways. It either has a line to God or it doesn’t.

Are the days of prophets over? The apostle John didn’t think so. Speaking of the battle of Armageddon, he wrote:

And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth [referenced by Zechariah, 4:3, 11]. And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. And the same hour was there a great earthquake....

This is the same earthquake that splits the Mount of Olives and is where Jesus returns and meets the Jews.

John specifically calls the two witnesses “prophets” and clearly says their ministry will be in Jerusalem, a prophecy the Society denies. One assumes these prophets will have the same powers and authority that ancient prophets held, so will they be beholden to the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society? Some religious sects believe that the two will be ancient prophets, such as Moses and Elijah, or Enoch and Elijah; however, there’s no evidence to support that.

In fact, there’s nothing to prevent the Lord from calling and speaking to prophets in our day and in our dispensation. So to say that the day of prophets is over is a gross mistatement and one that is roundly contradicted by the scriptures.

92

Ouija Board!!!

by XPeterX in

to those who don't believe in this shyt:you'd better not post here .

ok...so you ever used it?what experiences do you have?were you able to summon a demon?what did he tell you?what did you see?i'm really curious and i wanna try it!.

Cold Steel

I’m not implying that anything killed them. I’m saying they go there to commit suicide, and there are 70-100+ a year who die there. The Aokigahara, or Jukai (“Sea of Trees”), Forest in fact, is so dense that the authorities only do a suicide sweep once a year, so it’s not unusual for visitors to stumble on bodies, or to see spirits.

Forest workers sometimes find bodies and bring them to the local stations for processing. They then play a simple game to see who has to sleep in the room with the corpse, as if it is left alone it is said to scream in the night and to search out the living for comfort.

Death in the Aokigahara Forest

The forest is said to be one of the most haunted areas in the world and the most haunted in Japan. It was featured on one of the Destination Truth episodes on television, and the show’s host, Josh Gates, while walking down a dark trail in total darkness with only a small light, swears he stepped around a tree and came face-to-face with a young Japanese man standing in the way. He quickly called for the cameraman, who had night vision apparatus, but upon scanning the area, no one was seen. Josh said the man could not have been there in the middle of the trail with no flashlight or other means of finding his way, nor was there anywhere to run. The forest is dark even in the middle of the day, and at night, one needs to have a light. The cameraman also later captured the image of a man, again with no flashlight of any kind, standing by a tree. Suddenly, as if the man was on an elevator, he just slipped into the ground.

Yeah, I realize such things can be faked, but there are so many stories of others that sound so eerily similar that in my view the stories are plausible. I’m not suggesting that one believe such accounts, but if they doubt them, find a place and investigate it. Look for old forts, old grave yards, old asylums, old prisons and, of course, battlefields. Asylums and prisons are especially productive if you want to investigate whether there are spirits or not. Or you can just sit around and pontificate about things you know nothing about. Don’t get me wrong. We need skeptics, but we need skeptics who are willing to be objective. And just because you don’t believe in spirits doesn’t mean you can go into an old prison or asylum and spend the night without being scared out of your mind. Or have your mind play tricks on you. So take photos, bring recording devices, extra batteries and don’t use Ouija boards, even if you think they’re nonsense. It may even be a source of fun to do things like that. But like Dr. John Markway says in the MGM classic, The Haunting, “A closed mind is the worst defense against the supernatural.”

Great movie. Another great quote by Markway:
“...When we become involved in a supernatural event, we're scared out of our wits just because it's unknown. The night cry of a child. A face on the wall. Knockings, bangings. What's there to be afraid of? You weren't threatened. It was harmless, like a joke that doesn't come out.”

92

Ouija Board!!!

by XPeterX in

to those who don't believe in this shyt:you'd better not post here .

ok...so you ever used it?what experiences do you have?were you able to summon a demon?what did he tell you?what did you see?i'm really curious and i wanna try it!.

Cold Steel

Jeffro: You can call it drivel, but how do you know? And why are you so quick to dismiss it?

I have a theory. For atheists, it’s not enough to just not believe in a God; one also must reject both good and evil spirits, for if good and evil spirits existed, it would only be a short leap to assuming there also was a God.

Alas, it’s far easier to discover the existence of evil spirits than to discover the existence and will of God. Usually, all one has to do find out if evil spirits exist is hang around in the right places. One of the most haunted places in the world is the Fuji, Japan, National Park, one of the commonest places in the world to commit suicides. People go there to camp and, while there, they just vanish. Park police find their belongings there as if someone had left them and just walked away. Very spooky. Sometimes they find the bodies, while other times they don’t.

There are hundreds of such places all over the world.

37

Why do Jesus lovers accept the OT as god given.

by mP in

given the ot has a lot of cruelties, hatred and so on, surely the fact these attributes, saying and actions far outweigh the supposed love of jesus why dont they say its all fake and throw it out ?.

like what marcion did.

wouldnt it be easier to simply delete the ot and move on ?.

Cold Steel

mP: Jesus never went to prison.

Really? And when they arrested him, where do you suppose they took him? Where do you think they beat him and tortured him? One great thing about you, mP, is that you’re not afraid to say the first thing that pops into your mind, apparently without giving it much thought.

mP: Jesus spoke at his trial. One famous example being when he was asked is he the king of the Jews and he replied you said it etc. Another fail.

He answered Herod, who was appointed king over the land. But when he was dragged before Pilate, Jesus “opened not his mouth.” Pilate was the one who ordered his death at the insistence of the Jewish people. Not only did Isaiah predict the Messiah’s rejection by the Jews, but Zechariah also referenced it, when he wrote of Christ’s return. “And they shall look upon me whom they have pierced,” Yahweh says. And when the Jews shall see him, one shall say, “What are these wounds in thy hands?” And the Messiah will reply, “These are the wounds I received in the house of my friends.” (Zech. 13:6)

Even though the Romans technically killed him, Jesus pleaded for their forgiveness, for “they know not what they do.” The Jews, however, knew exactly what they were doing and did not partake in that forgiveness. At the end of the battle of Armageddon, Jesus appears to the Jews, who will instantly recognize him as the one their fathers killed.

Zechariah 12:10: And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

So again, you are wrong.

mP: You are actually wrong, because Paul in Philemon tells the run away slave (sorry cant recall his name, its starts with O) to return to his master. P never condemns the master etc. You have just made that statement up.

It becomes a waste of time to try to educate you here, but Onesimus (the slave) not only ran away from Philemon, he took a substantial part of his master’s money with him. Also, under the Mosaic Law, servitude was quite different than it was with slavery under Rome, and though Onesimus was most likely legally a slave under Roman law, he also enjoyed the restrictions the law of God imposed.

So what do we know of Onesimus? In what way did he come to serve Philemon? Was he indentured? Jesus never railed against slavery, again, because it was not his mission. The Atonement freed both freed and slave from the wages of sin, and though the Christian philosophy was opposed in principle to forced servitude (unless it was part of a restorative judgment, or agreement), it would have been dangerous to both the church and its leaders to come out vocally against the practice, since it was one of the pillars of Roman culture.

In short, we know nothing at all except that Onesimus took advantage of his master’s absence to rob him and make his escape. Then, under Paul’s tutelage, Onesimus was converted to Christianity. Paul, wanting to mend the relationship between Philemon and Onesimus, explained that what Onesimus did was wrong, but that he had been converted to Christianity. Paul said he had grown to love the young man and that their common love of Christ would, he hoped, increase their love for each other and urged forgiveness and reconciliation.

This is hardly a fellow who was working in the salt mines of Thessaly. And we know nothing of the situation other than the brief reference in scripture. Under Jewish law, people didn’t own each other. Interestingly, Paul wrote to Philemon: “For perhaps he therefore departed for a season, that thou shouldest receive him forever; not now as a servant, but above a servant, a brother beloved, specially to me, but how much more unto thee, both in the flesh, and in the Lord? If thou count me therefore a partner, receive him as myself. If he hath wronged thee, or oweth thee ought, put that on mine account....”

Does this sound like slavery or a son who has run away from his father? And is Paul condoning the principle of slavery or is he speaking of reconciliation?

37

Armageddon Is Right Around the Corner!

by Cold Steel in

if one were to poll present day jehovah's witnesses, what kind of a timeframe do you think they have for armageddon?.

do they still discourage higher education despite the fact they've been wrong so many times?.

one more thing about armageddon...how do they think it's going to start?

Cold Steel

Vidiot: According to Fred Franz's eschatology, it's supposed to start when the United Nations suddenly and unexpectedly marshalls a planet-wide campaign to supress and outlaw organized religion, and that the overwhelming majority of the world goes along with it.

I suspect the notion that the United Nations would outlaw religion and then, specifically, go after the Jehovah's Witnesses was indeed a part of a conspiracy theory. But from their standpoint at the time, it was understandable.

Keep in mind that before 1947, the world was completely different. First, Israel had not become a nation, so the very early Bible Students had to devise a work-around. If there was no nation of Israel, then the scriptures must be pointed at them as a sort of spiritual Israel. Thus, the place of Armageddon—the famous valley—also must be figurative. And the beast, known as Gog or the Antichrist, could not then come down upon a real Jerusalem, but a spiritual one.

There are two problems with this, however. First, Jerusalem was referred to by the apostle John as wicked, and he called it the city that was “spiritually called Sodom and Egypt.” (Rev. 11) That’s not very flattering if you’re that spiritual city. The second problem is that Armageddon culminates in the return of Jesus and the mass conversion of the Jews. In fact, one of the Jews is supposed to ask, “What are these wounds in they hands?” And Yahweh declares, “And they shall look upon me whom they have pierced.” (Zech. 12:10) Then the prophet describes the lamentation that will permeate the land. Why lamentation? Because it is at that point that they will realize that they have killed their Messiah.

Both present problems for a spiritual interpretation. If the Jehovah's Witnesses are spiritual Jerusalem, then they are called wicked and morally bankrupt. And if they look upon Jesus whom they have pierced, that would indicate that they slew him. It looks as though once Judah began returning to the holy land, that the Bible Students would have pointed to it as a fulfillment of scripture. Many evangelical churches did, and so did the Mormons. In fact, as early as 1830, expectations for the return of the Jews was running fairly high because that’s what the prophets prophesied would happen. (See Isa. 11:11 for just one of many.)

So when Jehovah's Witnesses speak of “Armageddon” coming, many other Christians don’t have the same understanding of the term. At the same time, Jehovah's Witnesses don’t understand why that’s so. But since they don’t read the religious writings of others, nor do they take comparative religion courses, there’s really no reason who they should.

37

Why do Jesus lovers accept the OT as god given.

by mP in

given the ot has a lot of cruelties, hatred and so on, surely the fact these attributes, saying and actions far outweigh the supposed love of jesus why dont they say its all fake and throw it out ?.

like what marcion did.

wouldnt it be easier to simply delete the ot and move on ?.

Cold Steel

mP: Jesus was not moral. If he was he would have spoken against slavery, but instead he tells stories telling the unfortunate to shutup and accept their fate. The same is true of women and his racist attitudes and tendencies. Jesus is nothing special, he’s just another name that has been reinvented and repurposed.

You’re absolutely correct that Jesus did not speak out against social injustices. That was not his mission. He was sent into the world to do the will of the Father and to die for the sins of the world, bringing about the great atonement. (See Isa. 53)

In God’s way of thinking, this life on Earth is just a blip in eternity. It doesn’t make any difference whether you’re a king or a slave, the important thing is being obedient to God and seeking his will in all things. Joseph spent time as a slave in Egypt and he tried to be the best servant he could be. If the Lord sees fit to free you or deliver you from bondage, so much the better, but Jesus wasn’t about being a political revolutionary, which is contrary to what Reza Aslan argues in his recent book, Zealot, The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus wasn’t a radical; he was about serving one’s fellow man and forgiving him. Under the Law of Moses, the animals, birds and, of course, the poor also were cared for.

The Atonement is the greatest gift that could be given anyone. But God doesn’t always share our values, like diversity, to name one. That’s a manmade value. And though early Christians were forbidden to own slaves, Jesus preached against rebellion and to strive for peace.

mP: Cold: Don’t forget to show the math and show us how this is humanly possible.

First of all, I don’t know how many Israelites left Egypt. The numbers used in the scriptures aren’t always that reliable; however, I don’t see that moving three million people would be completely unmanageable. Moses was known for delegating authority, and the Israelites were divided into twelve tribes, each tribe with its captains and organizers.

One scholar writes:

When the Israelites were suddenly granted their freedom, it was a glorious day for Jacob's children. But it is one thing to glory in freedom and quite another thing to move a mass of some three million human beings across a bleak and barren wilderness in order to keep that freedom. Moses knew that wilderness. The Israelites did not. It was ugly and violently desolate; windswept during the deadly monsoon season, and sun-drenched to the point of creating a boiling, blistering sterility during six months of the year. Its 120 degree heat could suck the breath of life from every man, woman and child. What would they eat? What would they drink? How would their flocks and herds survive? At the moment, these matters may not have worried the hosts of Israel. They were just grateful to be free. But Moses had reason to be worried. He knew that without these necessities this people might learn through bitter suffering in the wilderness to hate their precious freedom and actually long to return to the flesh pots and slavery of Egypt. The problem for Moses was not merely to get free, but to stay free.

Also:

The scriptures declare that this was no small conglomerate of nomadic tribesmen, but a monstrous concourse of humanity which included "600,000 on foot that were men," not counting women and children, the Levites, or the "mixed multitude" which went with them. As we learn elsewhere, this 600,000 constituted the male Israelites over 20 years of age who were fit and able to fight in defense of the others. This host of over half a million men is accurately referred to in Exodus as the "armies" of Israel. They, together with their wives and children (not counting the "mixed multitude") are believed to have constituted a total population of between two and three million people. As we pointed out in chapter 11, in order for the Israelites to have attained such a population in 215 years it would have been necessary for each family in each generation to have averaged around ten children. We also pointed out that when all of the circumstances are taken into consideration, this unexpected expansion in population is entirely plausible.

37

Armageddon Is Right Around the Corner!

by Cold Steel in

if one were to poll present day jehovah's witnesses, what kind of a timeframe do you think they have for armageddon?.

do they still discourage higher education despite the fact they've been wrong so many times?.

one more thing about armageddon...how do they think it's going to start?

Cold Steel

CantLeave: Your brand of cults is as dispicable as the witnesses - why don't you just give it a rest with your shitty little religion?

Just what is my “brand of cults”? And how are they as despicable as the Witnesses? I’ve noticed that you and your little atheist friends seem to be easily provoked when anyone stands up to you or defends what you think are mind numbing, controlling cults like Judaism, Christianity and, more recently, Mormonism.

So what do you do? You spit out your insults and resort to name calling! Chances are you’ve been burned by the Society and have now turned against all religion, and you think that by spewing vociferous contempt at it will make people see religion for what it is, all delusional tripe.

No one’s forcing to you or anyone else to read my posts and you can just ignore them if you wish. It would really be a shame if you actually learned something instead of just posting pot shots without form or substance.

——————-

Now, getting back to Armageddon, I wonder how many Jehovah's Witnesses realize that their understanding of this last great battle is entirely different than the understanding of the vast majority of Christian religions. There’s a reason many of the ancient prophets, apostles and Jesus himself were so preoccupied with the Middle East in the last days, and those who decide to put aside their Watchtowers and study what the scriptures say about what Armageddon is and how it’s supposed to come to a head, will quickly see that there’s a real problem with JW exegeses.

It’s 2013 now, and Judah began gathering back to the lands of its inheritance beginning in the late 1800s and became a nation in 1947, less than a hundred years ago. Unfortunately, the Bible Students didn't anticipate it. Now plans for the building of the third temple are in the works and for the first time in history, Jerusalem, as foretold, is surrounded by its enemies.

The Jehovah's Witness concept of Armageddon is similar to the Norse concept of Ragnarök, only the outcome is different. The fateful day dreaded by all Vikings is a day that would pit all the forces of good against all the forces of evil. But instead of good vanquishing evil, both good and evil would be destroyed. It wasn’t so much the conclusion that’s significant, but the anticipation. It was something that was always in the back of Norse minds—a day if imminent judgment and destruction. Author Edith Hamilton suggested Ragnarök was a reflection of the doom and gloom the Norse lived by. Their very existence rested on the food and goods procured by raids. Unlike the Greek gods, the Norse gods weren’t entirely immortal and could be killed. And instead of controlling the earth universe, their job was to hold it all together for as long as possible. And while Thor and the others held their feasts and made the best of things while they could, it was Odin that stood aloof and contemplated the last day.

While most other Christian denominations see Armageddon similar to how the Jews see their climatic battle (Ezek. 38-39; Zech. 12-14), as a local war culminating in the return of Christ, the Jehovah's Witnesses see it as a great battle between good and evil. And since Yahweh will slay many in his coming, the Society sees itself as the last chance of humanity and, in essence, tells its membership to hurry up and wait!

I just wonder if people us the phrase “just around the corner” any more at Kingdom Hall or whether they’ve learned anything from the past. It also would help if the leadership stopped working the people up into a frenzy, only to have their hopes dashed.

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Armageddon Is Right Around the Corner!

by Cold Steel in

if one were to poll present day jehovah's witnesses, what kind of a timeframe do you think they have for armageddon?.

do they still discourage higher education despite the fact they've been wrong so many times?.

one more thing about armageddon...how do they think it's going to start?

Cold Steel

mP: Ezekiel was a fraud, he made another prophecy that tyre (Eze 26) would be destroyed forever and yet its still around today. Look it up on google earth.

Again, mP, you speak without knowing all the facts. It may be that Ezekiel misspoke, or it could be that there are details regarding these prophecies that we don't know. Were any conditional aspects to this prophecy that we're not told about? Or historical or other extenuating circumstances that we don't presently know about?

Ezekiel has a very good track record in prophecies, too good for it to have been lucky or happenstance.

The Nature of Prophets and Prophecy

Ezekiel: Inerrent or Fallible?